Pundits Admit Defeat

by The Editors
and the APJ Pundit Pap Team

Sunday, June 6, 1999 -- NEW YORK/WASHINGTON -- Who would've imagined it?

The pundits caved in in near-unison this weekend, admitting that they were wrong on the NATO air campaign being waged against Serbia. The prognosticators had all predicted failure -- after all, air power alone has never worked as a military strategy, and there had been numerous serious problems with the campaign (if you believe the hyperbole of the commentariat).

Yet NATO has managed to get the Serb government to agree to a settlement involving withdrawal of Serb forces from Kosovo. Logistical meetings between NATO and Serb military officials continue as this issue goes to press.

And the perception that the commentariat were trying to shove down America's throat -- that this was Clinton's war to lose -- has boomeranged. Clinton looks to have slam-dunked Slobodan and the naysayers.

Here's how Clinton won Pundit War 1999:



Meet the Press / The McLaugh-In Group

What a relief -- both programs were pre-empted by our local NBC affiliate to make way for coverage of some silly tennis match.

We still can't help but imagine that the "booting" of Meet the Press (which, in some East Coast cities, did go on the air -- but at the ungodly hour of 8 AM) was actually instigated by the Grand Vizier of Clinton-Bashing himself -- Tim Russert -- in an effort to minimize his exposure and embarrassment over NATO's and President Clinton's ostensible victory over Serb forces.

We could also picture John Mc-Laugh-In himself doing a conference call yesterday to the producers and other members of his high-decibel weekly conservative schmoozefest, bellowing "Issue One: I'm giving you the week off!" and then hopping on the first flight to Belgrade to console his hard-right soulmates Slobodan Milosevic and "Arkan" for their defeat at the hands of that awful man Bill Clinton!

Hey -- maybe there is a reason for the editors to appreciate certain professional sports -- if they make it more inconvenient to watch Russert's unrelenting campaign to bad-mouth President Clinton, we encourage NBC to start covering as many Sunday sports events in Europe as they can!



Fox News Sunday

"Will a handshake with Serbia's strongman mean peace in Kosovo?... Does the First Lady have the right stuff to run for the Senate?"

Tony Snow had a second week off, which meant that Brit Hume -- who was uncharacteristically up-tempo and cheerful at the top of the show -- would host.

One of our editors couldn't help but remark over our private IRC chat channel, "Jeez! Prozac does work wonders!"

After the usual spin-enhanced recounting of the top headlines, Brit turned to the "tough" work of peace in Kosovo -- and NATO Secretary General Jaime Solana and asked if bombing would work if it needed to be resumed -- an assumption and practically a wish that peace will not be given a chance. Yes, Brit framed it as a hypothetical, but clearly he was pushing a worst-case picture to embarrass Solana.

Fred Barnes said in a question to Solana that Dan Quayle -- that forein pollicy geenus -- claimed that an international force could have prevented the Kosovo disaster! Mara brought up the specter of the KLA as "bad guys" by asking what assurances there were that they would not shoot at withdrawing Serb troops: "The KLA is not a party to this agreement."

Please, Mara -- as if they want to see ethnic cleansing continue.

Juan Williams asked about the composition of the peacekeeping force, and Solana said that it would be an international force -- and he pointed out that some of the force is already deployed in Macedonia.

Solana also was allowed -- and we emphasize that -- to point out the brutality of Milosevic only due to a follow-up question from Juan.

Hume tried to sow doubt by asking if he was "sure" there would be agreement seeing as the "negotiations" were not finished. And Solana debunked Hume's spin -- answering that these were not negotiations but meetings to iron out implementation of the agreement between NATO and Milosevic.

Barnes asked how soon Slobodan would be arrested and deported to the Hague -- a stupid question, which Solana made look dumb by pointing out that peacekeeping forces would be deployed in Kosovo, not Belgrade.

Mara asked when the first refugees would return, and Solana said he hoped to see this begin as soon as forces are deployed. Mara did ask about the possibility of winterizing refugee camps due to the mining of roads and other factors, but Solana spoke instead of near-term plans

Juan asked if partitioning would be acceptable, and Solana gave an uncategorical no.

Solana reiterated in reply to a question from Brit that the bulk of peacekeepers would be NATO troops, but other nations would participate -- pointing out the participation of Russian troops in Bosnia as an example. Hume followed up, asking if it was likely that the Russians would be in the North of Kosovo (in order to flog fears that the Serbs and their Russian "pals" might engage in some sort of trouble -- Hume was flogging old distrust of Russia), and Solana understandably did not give an answer.

It was ridiculous -- the Fox pundits more interested in getting their own views across than sounding out Solana on more pressing questions of the logistics of getting Serbs out and refugees back into Kosovo.

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What to do now about Kosovo and Serbia? The guests were Sens. John Ashcroft and Carl Levin. Brit asked Ashcroft about what should be done about Slobodan, and Ashcroft said that he should leave power -- and the U.S. should use trade and economic pressure to bear. "I do not believe we should provide aid to Serbia for reconstruction."

This is ridiculous -- it was the equivalent of protectionists who objected to the Marshall plan at the end of World War II. Sure, Kosovo and Serbia are European, but not to have a hand in reconstruction -- and establishing economic, intelligence and backdoor diplomatic ties -- is not only shortsighted but stupid. But this sort of talk is not unexpected from Ashcroft, one of the most loudmouthed and least intellectually rigorous conservatives in the Senate.

Levin's comment: "Hopefully the Serbian people will remove Milosevic [but] hopefully the reconstruction of Kosovo should be first on our mind." Levin cited many war crimes -- rape, destruction of villages, forced refugees -- which he blamed Milosevic for.

Juan asked if there were other steps that could have been taken to prevent refugees and stop Milosevic. Levin essentially said no -- and added that "the air campaign is a huge success for the U.S. and NATO."

You could almost feel Mara and Brit bristling at that!

Juan pointed out that Ashcroft was a Clinton critic, and yet shouldn't he be credited for the success of the air campaign against Serbia? Ashcroft chose the tried-and-false, hard-right tactic of saying "The real praise should go to our troops... and I commend them." This was a slap to the Clinton Administration and even NATO by refusing to give them credit where credit is surely due. And even Hume asked Ashcroft, who was the first GOPer to pull the plug on his bid to run for the GOP Presidential nod, if Clinton shouldn't get some praise -- and wouldn't he now vote to support air power, something he did not do some weeks back? Ashcroft, sounding petulant, said he would not vote for air power, but once we are in a situation such as we had in Kosovo, we must support our troops.

To the end, Ashcroft refused to credit Clinton or NATO -- and he was unable to conceal his personal hatred for Clinton. Levin not only attacked Ashcroft but all the other hard-righters in his reply, which practically painted Ashcroft as an unpatriotic traitor.

Good for you, Carl.

Ashcroft said that he does not see, since the U.S. did "the lion's share" of the bombing, why we should provide peacekeepers. "Why do we always have to do this?... I don't understand why we have to have ground troops there."

Well, there it is -- Ashcroft opposes support for stability and democracy in Europe.

So let us tell you why, John -- we are the only superpower. We are the best hope for bolstering, building and defending democracy.

And Levin counterpointed: "American participation in a junior role is essential to the success of this... give credit where credit is due [to] the Prime Minister [of NATO] and the President."

We can tell you -- Ashcroft never will.

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The next segment -- on Hillary Clinton's run for the Senate in New York -- began with Brit displaying the results of yet another set of idiotic Clinton-bashing Fox Opinion Dynamics poll questions ("the President should stay away from New York" -- puh-leeeeeeze!). The guests: Reps. Nita Lowey (D-NY) and Rick Lazio (R-NY).

Mara asked Lowey about the timing of her decision not to run -- and "why the First Lady didn't call you," which was a not-so-veiled swipe at Hillary, as if she has ESP and knows to call Lowey about her pulling out of the race. And Lowey said that it was her own decision not to run and that she "love[s] her job."

Hume: "Well, it would have been nice if she gave you the courtesy of telling you her decision." Right, Hume -- that Hillary is such a bitch for not calling. Give it a rest.

Fred Barnes asked Lazio if he would bow out so Rudy Giuliani could run in a race "that all America wants to see."

All America? We can only presume that he is talking about the "all America" whose entertainment preferences are Jerry Springer and WWF Wrestling. Rudy is already unleashing the low blows -- and undermining any chance he may have. Okay -- so maybe we do want to see this race, if only to watch the Napoleonic Mr. Giuliani get his butt whipped by Hillary.

And Lazio answered by labeling Hillary as a carpetbagger -- and added, "This is about personal power." hey -- looks like Lazio is as good with the cheap shots as Rudy, and he can motormouth faster than Rudy, no slouch at political speed-talking.

Fred then asked Lowey what makes Hillary qualified to run for the Senate -- and Lowey gave a multitude of reasons and issues to support the fact that Hillary "is superbly qualified." Barnes to Lowey: "Aren't you more qualified?" Lowey said that they both are. Barnes (in a laughable attempt to put words in Lowey's mouth): "So you're saying she's more qualified than you?"

What a non-sequitur -- and what Hillary-bashing. That's why we call Fred "The Weasel" around the APJ office. Frankly, even our high-school-age intern is more qualified to ask coherent questions than The Weasel.

Juan asked Lazio about his accomplishments, and Lazio pointed out his experience as a consensus-builder and legislator, saying he didn't think Rudy had the patience to be a legislator! And we agree -- he doesn't have the patience to handle the bad press he's getting over serial police brutality, that's for sure. Lazio also tried to cast himself as a "liberal" by pointing out his support for "welfare" (yeah, right). Juan followed up by asking about Rudy's PR woes concerning his out-of-control police, and Lazio went into a high-speed litany of other issues.

When Mara asked who the ideal GOP opponent for Hillary would be, Lowey said Hillary would beat either. Mara asked about Hillary's poll numbers that "go down and down and down..."

Funny how the poll numbers are meaningless when the Clintons are on top but suddenly so important if they make Hillary look bad!

Lowey and Lazio practically got into a shouting match as Lazio rattled off a bunch of his issues and Lazio counterpointed. It was way too fast to follow -- and Hume ended by saying with no irony in his voice that they were there to discuss an upcoming election campaign and, God forbid, a debate of the issues had broken out!

We feel Hume's pain -- especially when the guests are so loud and so quick that he can't control the pap and the spin! It was almost as much fun as Barney Frank's appearances on FNS, which have been too few since he told off both Tony and Brit for lack of fairness and balance.

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Hume began panel time by saying that a scheduled appearance by Pat Robertson had been canceled due to Robertson's having to travel on business. We can tell you that Robertson has gone to Scotland to do damage control -- the Bank of Scotland wants to cancel a business deal due to intolerant and frankly racist remarks by Robertson.

Hume said that the Kosovo endgame was a success for Clinton, and Barnes surprised even us by saying that the GOP is making a mistake by not crediting Clinton for the success of the air power initiative. These would be the first two acknowledgments by pundits that they were completely caught off guard by this -- granted, there was little humility, but there was less effort to sweep this under the rug the way they did their incorrect "predictions" of GOP gains in the off-term elections.

Mara said that it did surprise many that air power did work, but Juan was critical of the entire campaign -- why we delayed going after Milosevic and took ground troops off the table.

Hume cited stories coming out of Belgrade on the growing strength of Milosevic -- funny, Brit, that's not what we are hearing.

And Barnes had to mention the accidental bombing of the Chinese embassy -- but in the context of even that incident not stopping the air campaign and in fact stepping it up.

Mara bashed Clinton for ruling out ground troops, but Barnes said that what caused Milosevic "to cry uncle was peacekeeping forces massing on his borders." Mara, that expert on military tactics and strategy -- not -- claimed that the campaign would have been over if we hit Slobodan harder and faster.

Talk turned to Gore -- and Mara said that it's good for Gore that Kosovo looks resolved, and Barnes added that it's gone from a liability to a talking point. The panel also pointed out other unlikely winners -- Strobe Talbott and John McCain -- which segued into more ridiculous Fox Opinion Dynamics numbers showing "Bush with an overwhelming lead over Gore."

Barnes did mention Bauer, Kasich and others -- as nonentities!

Hey, Weasel -- we could have told you that Bauer's a joke.

At this point, talk turned to Hillary-bashing. Mara said that she's waiting to hear Hillary's rationale for running. Hume: "What's her achievement?" Barnes wants to know what Lowey really feels about Hillary -- and predicted that her entrance into the race will energize Republicans nationwide.

Of course, he ignores the flip side -- that it likewise energizes liberals and Democrats.

Mara brought up the spin of Hillary "sucking energy away from Gore" -- as if she had never heard of the reality that such campaigns tend to synergize and work in each other's favor. And Juan pointed out that it practically sounded as if Lazio is running -- even though he has not announced!

We hope so -- the way Lazio is talking, he's ready for a scrap -- and may upset "crown prince" Rudy the way Schumer surprised so many people and beat Geraldine Ferraro for the Democrat nomination against Al D'Amato.

At the end of the show, asked the panel what they really wanted to ask Hillary Clinton -- the responses included "What's the difference between Peekskill and Fishkill?" "What are the meaning of the words Oy veh?" and similar silliness.



Face the Nation

Guests: White House Chief of Staff, John Podesta; assistant majority leader Senator Don Nickles (R-OK) and Senator Joseph Biden (D-DE), Foreign Relations Committee; and Jimmy Breslin, Newsday columnist.

Bob Schieffer asked Podesta if there is any sign that the Serbian army is beginning to withdraw. Podesta said not yet. "We are hopeful that this conflict can end soon, but it's not over." NATO will continue bombing until there is a verifiable sign of withdrawal.

Schieffer asked him if he has a sense whether this deal is for real.

Podesta: "Mr. Milosevic signed on to the NATO demands.... We are hopeful that it's real but we are cautious. Milosevic has broken a lot of promises and until the military agreement is done, until the withdrawal schedule is in place, and until the forces begin to move, we are going to remain cautious and we are going to keep bombing them."

Gloria Borger: "You say the Serbs must withdraw completely but part of this deal apparently provides for an agreed number of Serbian forces to return. Sen. McCain has said that this is a loophole big enough to drive an armored battalion through."

Podesta: "Again, the agreement is to withdraw all Serb forces from Kosovo. A very limited number would be permitted to return."

Gloria: "How many?"

Podesta: "Those are details to be worked out, but it's hardly a loophole. In order for this to take place, there will be 50,000 troops led by NATO in Kosovo to protect the peace and to bring the refugees home."

Gloria again asked how many. Podesta: "Small numbers and to be worked out."

Schieffer: "Does the President feel vindicated now?"

Podesta: "I think the President is determined to see this through to the end, to a successful conclusion.... He had a plan, it was the right plan, we have been able to carry it forward and... ultimately... the Serb troops will be removed from Kosovo, the refugees will be able to come home and live with some autonomy and in peace. And I would remind you, Bob, we have done that losing two planes, no combat casualty, only two servicemen killed in a training accident."

Gloria: "But no matter what those final details are, Mr. Milosevic still remains in power. Should NATO go after" him?

Details? What does she mean by "details?" The fulfillment of NATO's demands (i.e., NATO's victory, by the way) are details??

Podesta: "That has never been an aim of the military campaign.... Ultimately the Serbian people will decide that. And I think for Serbia to join the community of nations and the community of Europe, I can't see that Mr. Milosevic will be able to stay in power.... It's our hope that he'll be brought to justice before the world crimes tribunal."

Schieffer asked Podesta to comment on what Dick Armey said this morning, that maybe there should be some sort of a summit conference between members of Congress and the White House to try to work out something to get a budget passed this year and get some appropriations bills passed. "Is that a good idea?"

Podesta: "No, I don't think it is a good idea at this stage.... We were very worried when Congress left for the Memorial Day recess that they couldn't get an appropriation bill passed, they couldn't get the defense authorization bill on the floor and, most disturbingly, they refused to go forward in the House and vote at that time on sensible restrictions on guns."

Schieffer asked why it wouldn't be a good idea to get together and help them out; Podesta said it's not a good idea because they have to come forward with a budget that rejects the one that is not working for them. They ought to go back to the drawing board and figure out what they want.

He added that the President laid out a budget that strengthens and preserves Social Security, that makes a major investment in Medicare, that invests on priorities in education and law enforcement and the environment -- all within the constraints of the fiscal caps that are included in the 1997 budget agreement. "The House and the Senate Republican leadership got together and they came up with a budget that preserves most of the money for tax cuts, which we think doesn't invest in the proper priorities. And now they are squealing. Well, I don't think we can help them at this stage until they reject that budget and come forward with a plan that will do the things that are necessary, including dealing with defense, but including education, environment, etc."

Gloria asked him about the President's plan on Medicare regarding prescription drugs.

Podesta: "The President will lay out a detailed Medicare plan... this month.... It will have a prescription drug benefit that will be universal and affordable" with a modest premium.

Gloria wanted to know what kind of a premium. Podesta said he'd let the President lay out the details of his plan.

Schieffer asked him if he thinks that the House is ready to pass the gun legislation that the Senate passed, and if it does, will it be enough?

Podesta hopes they are ready to do it because it is the right thing to do. It didn't sound to him that Dick Armey "was willing to go forward with the provisions that the Senate passed and was looking for ways to reopen that loophole. I think that's the wrong thing to do. It's wrong for America, it's wrong for America's youth. So I hope that they are ready to do it."

Schieffer: "If it's anything less than what the Senate passed, will the President then accept that or would he be prepared to veto it?"

Podesta didn't answer directly but said these are modest provisions. "We are talking about closing the gun show loophole, keeping assault weapons out of the hands of kids, having trigger locks.... These are not radical ideas.... The House should go along and pass them."

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Schieffer welcomed Senators Biden and Nickles, and asked Sen. Nickles about Armey's suggestion for a summit. Sen. Nickles agrees with Podesta in that he doesn't think a summit is needed now. Congress has work to do. Then he criticized the White House budget plan (naturally).

Schieffer asked Sen. Biden about the war. "Does this deal sound right to you?"

Sen. Biden, who was fierce with a vengeance today, replied: "Slobodan Milosevic is getting the living hell kicked out of him. He has no choice. If he doesn't go forward with the deal, we'll just decimate him -- flat out just decimate him.... They either yield or they get crushed. There is no in-between.... And there's no deal in terms of negotiation; they are only working out the modalities of how they move out.... I am confident [the President] is going to maintain the bombing and NATO unity until there is demonstration... the troops are moving out. If they don't do that, so be it -- the weather is clear and we will blow them away."

Schieffer asked him if the President thinks this is going to happen.

Biden: "He thinks it's going to happen.... I strongly suggested that [we] don't wait for the UN resolution -- once they begin to move, if they move, stop the bombing and begin to move in the K-4 and simultaneously try to get a UN resolution. But do not withhold sending troops in based on the UN resolution and do not stop the bombing until there's actual, demonstrable movement of all forces out of Kosovo by Mr. Milosevic."

Bringing up Sadam Hussein, Gloria asked Sen. Nickles if it worries him that Mr. Milosevic still remains in power. He said it does. He believes the word "simultaneous" that Sen. Biden mentioned is important. He hopes the military leaders will decide to have a simultaneous withdrawal of the Serb forces, a stopping of the bombing and the insertion of the peacekeepers, tomorrow. He doesn't like the "macho hey we are just going to keep on bombing until we really see...."

Gloria: "and go get Mr. Milosevic?"

Sen. Nickles said no. If they made that a precursor, we'll never get there. Milosevic is concerned about himself more than he is concerned about the Serbs or the Kosovars.

Schieffer asked Sen. Biden what he would do about Milosevic.

Biden gave a great response: "Gloria just stated a question that I find kind of curious, asking Don and those who were opposed to the bombing in the first place whether they are disappointed Milosevic is still there and whether we should keep bombing until he leaves. They never supported bombing in the first place! They never supported the idea.... They said we could negotiate with him. We should take Milosevic as he is -- a war criminal. We should... within the context of the international community, pursue him as a war criminal, not do one single thing for the reconstruction of Serbia through the European Union or the US effort until Mr. Milosevic is gone. We should make that crystal clear."

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And now, Jimmy Breslin. What's with this dinosaur??

Schieffer asked him about Hillary and that "nasty New York press."

Breslin doesn't know how nasty it is, pointing out the language just heard on the show -- "we're going to blow them away" (a stab at Sen. Biden). He said he hasn't heard anybody talking like that in a long time, "since the mob was a big name in New York."

Then, guess what? He started talking about none other than Monica Lewinsky!

Breslin saw her in Greenwich Village alone (only one photographer) and he commented at the time, "take a look at that, she is all alone, nobody knows her, this woman started a war..." because "she had the President rolling around the hallway in the White House, not paying attention to business, and we wind up bombing some place in the Sudan, then we wind up in a regular air war against Yugoslavia. It's hard to believe."

Yes, it is hard to believe -- because it is ludicrous, Jimmy! Good grief! He really believes that? If anything, the President was distracted by the Impeachment Witch-Hunt. This guy should retire, and soon.

But he didn't stop there.

He went on and on -- smearing the President with the old vituperation about his affair, STILL! Then finally he attempted to address the Hillary question and said nothing of value.

What a waste of time!

Schieffer mercifully turned the attention to Gloria and asked her about Hillary. Gloria said there is good news and there is bad news for the Democrats. The good news is that she raises a lot of money and she is a strong candidate. The bad news is that she raises a lot of money from Republicans also. "Having said that, she is quite formidable," Chuck Schumer will be campaigning for her, her husband may be campaigning for her."

Which Breslin thinks will be a minus, as "people are tired of the Clintons." And he went on bashing them. He said Hillary wants to be Eleanor Roosevelt, except she is for capital punishment. "She was responsible with her husband to helping kill the cornerstone of the Roosevelt legacy to America" through the welfare bill change.

Schieffer asked Gloria if Hillary now takes responsibility for her husband's actions both policy wise and behavior wise. Gloria said more policy wise. Her ratings went up with the Monica Lewinsky case. But policy wise, it's very legitimate for journalists to raise questions about the welfare reform bills, for example.

Schieffer said they want to have Breslin back during the campaign season.

CBS News, if you are smart, you won't listen to Bob on this matter!

But Schieffer was worth a listen -- and funny -- in his final word. He "announced" that he is forming his own exploratory committee because "everyone else seems to be doing it" and because "people for some reason send them millions of dollars." Maybe for President of Italy (he loves the food). He's also decided that however it comes out, he'll keep the money. "So, be generous."



This Weak

Peace in Kosovo and the New York Senate race were likewise This Weak's topics, and Sam and Cokie turned immediately to their first two guests, Joint Chiefs Chairman Hugh Shelton and Defense Secretary William Cohen.

Sam claimed that the "details" to be ironed out are turning into a "negotiation," but Cohen said that that perception is absolutely wrong -- many, many details have to be worked out.

Sam asked Shelton about an press report of a dispute between NATO -- who are said to have given the Serbs seven days to pull out of Kosovo -- and Serbia, who say they need ten days. Shelton was emphatic in saying that NATO's plan would be followed.

Cokie asked if Kosovars may fear returning to their homes if Russians are peacekeepers, and Cohen did not think so since Russians would be part of a larger force, and the extent to which Russians will take part is up to them.

Is there a "specific thing holding them [Serb generals and NATO officers] up?" Cohen said no, once again pointing out that there were a huge number of details to be addressed in the current meetings.

George Will asked about the current sorties, and Shelton replied that NATO is targeting the Serb military. Will asked about "disarming" the KLA, and Shelton said that "demilitarizing" the KLA was the goal. Both Shelton and Cohen talked about contingencies against terrorism, snipers and other possible problems in Kosovo.

Toward the end of the segment, Sam finally turned to the fact that air power has been a success -- but then tried comparing the current situation to Desert Storm. And Cohen made the most of this false comparison, making Sam look foolish as he listed a series of fundamental differences between Kosovo and Kuwait.

Following the break, Sam and Cokie welcomed the president of Finland, Martti Ahtisaari. Sad to say, the entire segment was a waste -- with Sam, Cokie and George mostly asking about minutia of his talks with Milosevic. Ahtisaari made some comments on the goal being the secure return of Kosovars to their home and the involvement of the UN, nothing we have not heard a hundred times before.

One of our editors is convinced that he constantly jots notes when someone asks him a question -- probably a sign of Alzheimer's disease. Another member of the Pundit Pap team commented that he had bore an eerie resemblance to a sort of Nordic Ken Starr, but with better hair.

Cokie did ask Ahtisaari about his impending visit to China, but there was no news there -- Ahtisaari simply needs to brief the Chinese team to the UN on the current situation.

Amazing dud response of the week: Sam asked why Milosevic agreed to NATO's terms, and Ahtisaari said that he did not ask.

"What will be the reaction to this peace in Kosovo -- if it is in fact peace in Kosovo?" said the trying-to-sound-skeptical Cokie as she welcomed Sen. John McCain, who said that despite a faltering start and inefficient execution, the air campaign proved NATO relevant. He cited the strategic bombing campaigns and the KLA forcing Serbs to regroup as turning points. Cokie could not help pointing out that Slobodan is still in power, and McCain said that the long-term goal should be to make Slobodan pay a heavy price.

Will cited a $150 billion figure being bandied about to rebuild Yugoslavia -- should we withhold aid until Slobo is out? McCain said yes.

Will followed up by asking if the two losers were Milosevic and the GOP -- and McCain said yes! America, he added, must remain engaged when our interests are at stake. "Thousands of Kosovars were ethnically cleansed because we said there would be no ground troops" -- and McCain pointed to "the GOP" as being the reason that ground troops were not on the table!

He was, of course, talking about the isolationist, hard-right, Clinton-bashing wing of the party -- and we think that these sort of comments may actually bolster McCain's standing among GOP centerists and moderates who want to see the party's harsh-right power base under mined, and soon.

Will brought up the old canard of "can we really fight conflicts in two hot spots?" and McCain saw no reason we could not -- but castigated both parties for not funding defense and making our servicemen feel as if they are cared about -- or cared for.

Yes, the segment did have elements of a campaign stump speech by McCain -- and we have to say that he did a very effective job. He made his positions on Kosovo and the military clear -- and did not gloat about being right where so many of his GOP colleagues had been wrong in not supporting the Clinton Administration, choosing instead to make the party itself question these members' patriotism.

The following segment targeted Hillary Clinton's run for the Senate. The guest: Sen. Chuck Schumer. Sam led off by asking if there was any doubt she was running -- and followed up with an inane question about what a disappointment it would be if she did not run. Good grief. Will tried to raise that awful possibility that Hillary is using a Senatorship as a springboard to the Presidency.

Schumer handled the idiocy with an unusually restrained tone -- and concentrated on his agreement with Hillary on so many issues, especially including health and child care.

Cokie asked about how a Senate race would interfere with "the First Lady's duties" -- a truly stupid and meaningless question in that Mrs. Clinton has no official duties and is not on the Federal payroll, not to mention the fact that any candidate has to balance their existing obligations with campaigning, raising money and all the other time-consuming work that goes hand-in-hand with running for office.

And Schumer, of course, stuck to issues rather than playing into Cokie's senseless pap, predicting that families and kid care would become national issues as Hillary focuses on them.

Sam asked whether the GOP nod would go to Rudy Giuliani or Rick Lazio -- which led Schumer into a discussion of civility in a race against Hillary and how the negative campaign for the seat he now holds turned off voters.

It did sound a little silly coming from Schumer -- who matched each of D'Amato's negative ads blow for blow -- but Rudy and Lazio would be wise to listen. Rudy's petulant prattling about Hillary's being a "carpetbagger" stand to generate a nasty backlash.

Roundtable chat dealt exclusively with Kosovo. We were amazed that Hillary was not even discussed, let alone bashed! Key spin points (and demerits):